Periodista: we are now joined by Professor Jesús Agreda Rudenko, a professor at the Faculty of International Political and Urban Studies at Rosario University. Professor Jesús, thank you for joining us this morning. Good morning.

Invitado: Good morning, as always it is a pleasure to be here with you.

Periodista: Professor, we would like to learn more about the relationship between these two countries, Nicaragua and Russia, and also delve /DELV/ into the reasons why Nicaragua might need to strengthen its security

Invitado: It is an intriguing question, especially considering that Nicaragua has become one of Russia's closest allies at the continental level, not only in South America but in America as a whole. Of course, we were aware of Cuba and Venezuela, but Nicaragua has become a more reliable ally. The points of convergence were rebuilt from the beginning of this century, especially with the change of government in Russia, but eventually also with the change in Russia's position towards the world at the beginning of this century.

Russia took advantage of Nicaragua's historical ties with the Soviet Union. Russia used Nicaragua's technological and military dependence on Russia to approach or rebuild primarily technical-military relations and later political relations for economic reasons rather than ideological ones.

Nicaragua is, therefore, a country that has consistently supported the decisions taken by Russia within the framework of the UN. An example of this was in 2008 when Nicaragua supported Russia in the UN when Russia decided to essentially declare the independence of two states in Georgia, which were South Ossetia /asishia/and Abkhazia. /abKEIzia/

Hence, we see an ally that was consolidated for Russia based on an approach that was primarily economic and technical rather than ideological. However, this ally is increasingly becoming a strategic partner for Russia at the regional level. On the other hand, there is a legal issue, which is the idea of adapting the Nicaraguan National Police to the interests of the government.

Periodista: In addition to these, there are two rather curious terms: Skills Enhancement and Development in police activities managed by Russia. What is known about these two concepts? What can Russia contribute to the security of this country? Or would it be more support for the repression already known in Nicaragua?

Invitado: I would lean more towards the second position. The reason is very simple. We must consider who will be in charge of this center. As we can see, it will be under the responsibility of the Russian Ministry of Interior. In other words, the institution that is responsible for guaranteeing internal stability within Russia will now be in charge of organizing and, in a way, retraining the Nicaraguan police. The Nicaraguan police will be prepared to face the specific challenges that the government is facing, which is precisely internal political stability. We have already seen this. Cooperation is not new. It began in these areas between 2016 and 2017. The results of this cooperation have already been seen in mechanisms of repression; anti-government protest repression mechanisms that left several people dead a few years ago. Thus, it is not new; it is a mechanism that will simply be consolidated to guarantee the stability of a political leader that Russia considers essential precisely to have an ally at the regional level.

Therefore, it is indeed not a mechanism that will change the landscape in the fight against organized crime or even in the fight against drug trafficking in Nicaragua. Instead, it is a very significant politicization of the police to turn it into a mechanism that guarantees the stability of the political leader, Daniel Ortega.

Periodista: In addition to the security issue, there is another important aspect of the collaboration between Russia and Nicaragua: the satellites that have been installed since 2017. What would be the purpose of putting these devices on the borders? What has it been used for? What concerns has this raised /reizd/ in the United States?

Invitado: Well, it is not the installation of satellites but rather the installation of a monitoring station. Russia is no longer a close ally of the United States, and that means that Russia cannot rely on the United States and its capabilities. If we assume the correlation between the GPS satellite navigation system that we all use with the United States, we can see that Russia saw a weakness that it tried to compensate for.

Therefore, Russia attempted to create a parallel or alternative satellite system called GLONASS. It is a satellite navigation system, but previously it was only Russian. For this, it needs not only a satellite system but also a series of control stations that help generate the necessary precision for the system. The importance of this system is quite simple. For instance, talking about missiles /MIsels/ or weapons systems that require satellite navigation. Russia considered that it could not rely on the United States and decided to create its own system, and Nicaragua became one of those focal points

The facility was opened in 2017, but it is now becoming more evident that it is being reinforced. In principle, the objective is not a regional threat; according to Russia, the objective is much more normal and acceptable. However, the concerns that are being raised are evident.

The proximity of such a close surveillance /sɚˈveɪ.ləns/ system to the United States leads the United States to believe that it is not a facility with civilian purposes, but rather a facility with purely military purposes. This is especially true because we cannot forget that there is intelligence cooperation between Russia and Nicaragua, which also originated between 2016 and 2017, and which of course gives rise to those suspicions or supports those suspicions that the United States and perhaps some other allies of the United States have at the regional level.

Periodista: There are records of a fairly active relationship between Nicaragua and Russia dating back to the 1980s. Without Vladimir Putin or Daniel Ortega in the picture during that decade, how did this relationship develop during the Cold War?

Invitado: It is important to remember the Sandinista revolution and all the leftist movements in the context of the Cold War. The interest in the 70s and 80s was mainly ideological. What the Soviet Union achieved in that context was basically to create a regional ally in Central America.

Furthermore, Russia supported its ally through various mechanisms, including not only financial, economic, and ideological assistance, but most importantly, military support. This is why, at the beginning of the 21st century, almost 90% of all military equipment in Nicaragua was of Soviet production. This is also why Russia eventually found gateways to cooperate with the Central American country.

However, I must clarify again that in this specific context, we can no longer speak of ideological support. Russia is not socialist, and the reason Russia is in Latin America and Central America is more for strategic geopolitical and economic reasons than specifically ideological. What happened in the 1980s was nothing more than the foundation that eventually allowed for this very close cooperation between Russia and Nicaragua today.

Periodista: I wanted to ask you precisely about making this type of agreement public. Before, this was an impossible concept. The relationship between Russia and Central and South American countries was always seen as something very secretive/ˈsiː.krə.t̬ɪv/, even as part of certain conspiracies by certain parties. From your analysis, why are Russia and Nicaragua, which have always conducted their processes in a very secretive manner, now doing so in such an evident way? Why is there no longer any fear of public opinion?

Invitado: That is a very interesting question, and we could answer it in two parts. First, at the domestic level. At the domestic level, the Ortega regime /reYIM/ has not only consolidated its power but has also shown its ability to maintain it. It has already shown that it is not afraid to use repression, and this means that it no longer has the same fear of public opinion that it may have had before.

It is simply a mechanism of psychological control on the one hand because it shows that he is not alone and that he has the international support of Russia. This also shows that Russia is fully committed to the stability of the regime. This means that the opposition has to make an even more complex political calculation. The opposition not only has to understand that it would have to try to overthrow Ortega but also that eventually, if it wants to come to power, it will have to compete against Ortega and also against Russia and its support.

Secondly, there is also an international change of mentality regarding the war between Russia and Ukraine, and Russia's actions in the world. If we take a closer look, Latin America in particular has been one of the regions that has tried to remain more neutral concerning the war that Russia is carrying out. This means, in a way, that Russia's behavior has been somewhat legitimized./ləˈdʒɪt.ə.maɪz/

Therefore, at the regional level, Russia is not necessarily seen as a destabilizing /disTEIbalaisin/ actor. It is even legitimized by arguing that Russia is a legitimate /leYItªmªt/ international actor and is trying to create a different international order against the hegemony /jiYEmoni/ of the United States. So, first, at the domestic level, it is a mechanism of political and even psychological control. However, at the level of the international system, there is no longer a rejection of Russia as a state. It is even perceived as a legitimate alternative source or agent to a kind of US hegemony and imperialism. Under this logic, then, there is no longer any reason to hide such agreements. On the contrary, they can be promoted and publicized /ˈpʌb.lɪ.saɪzd/ completely freely.

Periodista: We are talking about Russia's progress in a police intelligence and security system in Nicaragua. We thank Professor Jesús Agreda Rudenko, Professor of the Faculty of International, Political and Urban Studies at Rosario University. Professor, It is always a pleasure to speak with you and learn about Russia's influence in Latin America.

Invitado: As always, it is also a pleasure to be with you. Thank you very much for the invitation.

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